How to Stay Motivated as a Recruiter Guest Speaker: Bob Marshall

Audio Transcript for:
How to Stay Motivated as a Recruiter
Guest Speaker: Bob Marshall
This is a word for word, unedited, transcript of a live
Tele-seminar from Gary Stauble
Copyright 2006 Gary Stauble. It is illegal to share or duplicate this information without prior written permission.
P.O. Box 1502 Gilroy, CA 95021 Phone 408-847-5049 Fax 408-762-4317
Good morning everybody, thank you for joining us for today’s tele-seminar
with Bob Marshall. We’re going to get started in about a minute or two, let
me give you a couple of introductory comments and then I’m going to turn
it over to Bob. First of all, a couple of upcoming sessions; next month the
recruiter’s roundtable will be on June 5th. This is for our Mastermind
program members and the three topics are:
1. Internet research and recruiting
2. Using email versus picking up the phone – how do you decide
when and where to do each.
3. How to deal with HR when you’re getting herded to HR and away
from the hiring authorities.
Then on June 12th it’s going to be “How to lead a championship team of
recruiters and researchers.” We’re going to talk about things your
management program must include; how to handle an under-performing
recruiter’s evaluation, and things like that.
Ok, so let’s get started with our session for today. I want to give you a
couple of introductory comments. First of all we have a large group and
we’re going to try to get to questions at the end of the hour. Bob has
agreed to stay on after 9:00 for some questions, I can’t guarantee that we
will get to everybody’s question but we will do our best. If you are a
Mastermind program member and we don’t get to your question today,
you can logon to the member’s area and submit your question to me on
the online discussion board and I will personally answer your question
In terms of our session today, Bob Marshall is our guest speaker today.
This is his third time speaking with us and he’s had some of the best
reviews of any trainer that I’ve had as a guest on the calls. If you want to
know more about Bob you can go to He has
over 27 years of experience in the recruiting industry. He’s trained
recruiters all over the world, he still works a desk today, and what
attracted me to Bob’s training initially was that he’s very focused on
creating systems on practical tools that you can implement that are
manageable and repeatable. That’s what I like about his training. If you
want to get a copy of this session’s outline – the handouts, you want to go
to That is it, Bob are your ready?
Bob M.
I am.
Ok, take it away.
Bob M.
Thanks again for the introduction Gary, I always like to thank Gary and
The Recruiting Lab for providing this forum where a lot of different trainers
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P.O. Box 1502 Gilroy, CA 95021 Phone 408-847-5049 Fax 408-762-4317
and come to his students telephonically I think is important. I’m looking
forward to the next hour and today I’m going to be talking to you about
how to stay motivated as a recruiter. This came about a couple of months
ago, Gary and I were talking about topics for another tele-seminar for his
group, and he suggested one of my CD’s dealing with motivation – the
peaks and the valleys; and said that it could be combined with time
management and organization techniques including the 100 point sheet
that you’ll have a handout on, and so that’s what we’re going to talk about
today. So I think the way Gary has set it up is that everybody is going to
be on a muted mike, and at the end I’ll set aside some time for Q&A.
That’s basically it for my introduction and I hope you like today’s
“You can’t heat an oven with snowballs!”
This is what I entitle the first part of this presentation. You got to know
what’s cooking, you got to like what’s cooking, and you got to believe
what’s cooking. I heard those words many years ago from who I consider
may be the greatest trainer ever. In fact, I was looking him up yesterday,
googling his name just to see where he is now and if he was still doing
this. But he has a lot of really good quotes, motivational types, but I think
he really understood the basic premise that underlies motivation. When
you talk about motivation I think it’s real tricky, and I don’t think it comes
down to a bunch of platitudes about positive mental attitude. As soon as
you mention positive mental attitude you notice recruiters or anybody
basically turning off because they’ve heard it used and frankly it’s
overused. Instead I think motivation comes from understanding exactly
what you do and then doing what you do extraordinarily well. I think that is
the key. If you have the ability to master those two things you will always
be highly motivated.
Think of it this way: a great surgeon is motivated because he has attained
great skill and he knows how to use it. But if we asked that same surgeon,
let’s say we put him in a foreign country and he didn’t speak the language
and we asked him to do a new operation that he’s never done before, all
of his motivation and confidence would melt away. The same thing
happens with recruiters. The ones who produce at the highest level know
this business, make a commitment to this business, and then do this
business correctly. I think that underlies this whole topic of what we’re
talking about today regarding motivation and what I’m going to focus on
and ties in with what Gary said earlier, I’m kind of a nuts and bolts, pretty
pragmatic type guy when it comes to teaching this stuff.
In 2005 a recruiter came to me by the name of David from Louisville,
Kentucky, and he had been sent to me by Paul Hawkinson from Fordyce
Letter. David wanted to learn how to bill a million dollars in one year, and
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he asked Paul who should he call and lucky for me Paul had him to call
me. So we talked and I noticed he had a lot of qualities you look for in a
recruiter, but he had some basic things wrong. It’s almost like any of you
that buy used houses – you look for the right things wrong? David had the
right things wrong, which a lot of us have in recruiting. His basic problem
was that he was treating this business as a series of events instead of a
process. That’s a big underline idea that I want to talk about. The idea
with David was this, and with a lot of us. He took a candidate, found out
where that candidate wanted to live; would market to those areas; would
prep the candidate; send him in for the interview, debrief; place him or not.
Take another candidate; find out where that guy wanted to live; make his
marketing calls; write the job order; do the same thing... and he would do
this all around the country. Well, you can make placements that way – it’s
called making placements by looking at this business as a series of
events. The problem is you don’t make many placements – i.e. David
making $200,000 in 2005, and this business becomes extraordinarily
complicated and it’s like a big roller coaster ride, where you’re at the top
then you’re down, then you’re on top....It’s this huge, huge roller coaster
ride! That was the first thing I noticed with him that we had to change. Now
what I wanted him to do and what all the top producers that I’ve been
around do on a daily basis is they treat this business as a process not as a
series of events. They market everyday they recruit everyday they match
everyday they reference check everyday they prep everyday they debrief
everyday, they do everything in other words, everyday and it’s a process
of mixing and matching them. That’s the first thing to understand in order
to be motivated and stay motivated in this business. If you don’t
understand that the rest of it is not going to hold together.
“It’s 4%.”
Secondly, this business in my opinion and a lot of top producers have
talked to me about this, is a 4% business. What does that mean? Any
numbers I give you is not cast in concrete but at least it’ll give you an idea.
A 4% marketplace means that 4% of the marketplace we call into needs
us. In other words, needs a recruiter. Why are you needed? We’re needed
basically to circumvent the time factor. In fact we used to say in the old
days, “Look for these three things. Don’t worry about the other stuff just
look for these three things and you’ll be highly successful.” Look for
companies that have urgency, urgency, and urgency. If they have urgency
this job is a piece of cake and you all know that. If they don’t have urgency
this may be the hardest job to do in the history of the world. That’s why we
say to you, a rule of thumb (top producers will say this) don’t call
companies who you know the name of because they are too big to have
the urgency that you need. Now, I don’t really go that far. I think you
should call everybody but that 4% rule does tend to hold. If that 4% rule
holds, 4% of the companies out there you will place with. What that means
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is 96% of the companies out there you won’t place with. Some of those
will give you job orders; some of those will like you, and some of those will
string you along and some will give you job orders that are exceedingly
hard to fill but you’ll be so tenacious that you’ll hang in there, and you’ll
find the person and you’ll make the placement but it’ll take you three
months to do it. So while top recruiters are making three or four
placements a month, you’re making three or four placements a quarter.
And we’ll talk more about his a little later when we talk about qualifying the
job order but if that 4% rule holds – and I believe it does, we need a
significantly large enough marketplace to sustain your activity and run
what we call a low-risk operation.
I always like to teach 25 connect calls a day. I can make 25 connect calls
a day and I’m not the biggest marketer of all time, and plus these are
going to be multitasking-oriented calls where you’re going to market and
recruit on every call. But that aside, if you make 25 connect calls a day,
that’s 125 a week, 500 a month or 1,500 a quarter. So the idea then is I
teach – and I know some people, you know, fall off their chair when I
teach this – but I teach that you need a marketplace or a niche or
whatever you’re going to attack, of 1,500 company contacts. Now here in
Atlanta we have Coke Cola – big company. If I was marketing Coke, which
I’m not, but if I was there might be 10 or 15 different hiring authorities who
could hire different people within Coke because it’s such a huge company.
I would count each of those contacts who could hire different people as a
different company though they all come under the heading of Coke Cola.
So, if you’re working big companies just realize that different divisions of
the companies you should consider as different companies when you’re
trying to get up to your 1,500. But think of this then: if you understand this
business as a process and not a series of events, and if you understand
the 4% rule and if you have 1,500 companies and if you’re going to make
those 4% placements, 4% of 1,500 is 60. If your average fee is $10,000
that’s $600,000 a year, which most of us don’t do. If it’s $20,000 which is
kind of an average fee nowadays, that’s a million two. If you wonder how
these people do it, that’s how they do it.
David when he came to me one of his prior years he had billed $400,000,
so that wasn’t a big leap for me to take him to the next step. The year
before he’d only done $200,000 and that bothered him a lot. He ended up
putting all of this stuff in place, and by the way I asked him permission to
talk about him and to share some of his numbers and he’s given me that
permission, that’s why you’re going to see some things on him today. He
finished 2006 at production – this man by the way is a very straight
shooter, he’s not going to fib to us – he finished the year at a million seven
in production, which is phenomenal.
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He looked at this business, he took it different way, and he is a great
student. Gary will appreciate this – he was one of those students that
came to you and said ‘I’ll do anything you tell me to do. I won’t argue I
won’t debate, I won’t see who is the smartest trainer...’ He actually wanted
to learn and he would do anything I told him to do as long as it was ethical
and I promised him it would be because I only teach ethical behavior in
recruiting. So, it worked out really well. I think those two things are critical
to understand at the outset here: look at this business as a process
and not a series of events, have a large enough marketplace to
sustain you in any economy, whether it’s good or bad, (that’s the 4%
rule) and the 1,500 companies.
It’s about commitment.
Next and I think critical as well one debating a little preamble here to talk
about motivation, is commitment. I think recruiters have to make a
commitment to the business in order for it to work. I don’t think we can ask
recruiters brand new in the business to make a commitment maybe until
they’ve had their first year anniversary. I don’t think it is something that
you commit to right away. But once you decide this is what you want to do
and you don’t want to do anything else and you commit to it, everything
will change for you. I promise you that will happen. “Robocruiter” – those
of you who’ve heard me before know that I talk about my favorite recruiter,
and he’s still down in Scottsdale, Arizona. I call him Robocruiter because
he was like Robocop only he was a recruiter and he’s like a recruiter
machine. Always over a million dollars, did everything in my book
correctly. I learned so much from him. One of the things Robocruiter used
to say is that the reason recruiter’s fail is because they never make a
commitment to the business. And because they never make a
commitment to the business, they never feel entitled to ask for the
information from both hiring authorities and candidates that they must
have in order to be successful. I know it’s kind of a long winded definition
but think about that! Unless you make a commitment you won’t feel
entitled to ask for the information you must get in order to be successful
and so what happens is you won’t ask it because you don’t feel entitled.
That’s where you find the blank blocks on the job order form, the blank
blocks on the recruit data sheets because we didn’t think we were entitled.
I just spoke to a recruiter the other day who feels uneasy about telling me
how much money he’s making. Well, he can feel uneasy but that’s not an
option. Certain things working with me are an option certain things are
conditions – that’s a condition. You’ve got to tell me how much you make
or I can’t work with you, the relationship at that point ends. But I’ve made a
commitment to the business so I have no problem talking to him that way,
in a nice way but I’ve got to know because it’s a condition.
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There was another quote that I always use and it’s in my Quick Resource
Guide in the front that I have near me. It’s different little motivational
messages but one is about commitment and it was written awhile back in
1951 by W. M. Murray:
“Until one is committed there is hesitancy the chance to draw back
always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative and creation
there is one elementary truth. The ignorance of which kills
countless ideas and splendid plans. That the moment one definitely
commits oneself then providence moves too. All sorts of things
occur to help one that would otherwise never have occurred. A
whole stream of events issues from the decision raising in one’s
favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material
assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way. I have learned a deep respect for one of Girder’s couplets,
whatever you can do and dream you can begin it. Boldness has
genius, power and magic in it.”
I believe that. I think that when recruiter’s make a commitment all of a
sudden doors open where before that we didn’t even know there was a
doorway. And if you don’t make a commitment, you don’t even know
where the doorways are.
The other essential part for understanding motivation in this business is
you need to at some point in time make a commitment to the business.
Those things are the foundation:
• Treating the business as a process
• The 4% rule, the 1,500 company contacts
• Making a commitment.
I think everything else we can build on, because that’s the foundation that
we can build upon. If those basic blocks are not there then it’s hard to
build a foundation or it’s just not going to work. With David, when I started
with him, he had the faulty foundation that I knew I could fix. Once I fixed
that foundation the rest of it was motion picture history and then he just
took off because he was doing so many things right, but if you’re flawed in
the fundamental things the flaw compounds itself. That’s why it’s
frustrating for you to look at a big biller and say ‘how can he place three or
four people a month when it takes me a quarter to do that many!’ It’s not
because he has an easier marketplace, Gary and I have heard that over
the years: “What is so-and-so working because I want to work his
marketplace because that’s where all the money is.” Not true! I mean
there are marketplaces you wouldn’t believe and one of the biggest billers
that I ever heard of up in Nasher, New Hampshire did shoes: tongues,
laces, soles. And he was the biggest producer in his organization that
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year. It doesn’t matter the marketplace, it matters how you fundamentally
attack the marketplace.
Planning and Organization
Once we have this setup, we can look for how to plan and organize. Big
topic, Gary and I talked about it when we talked about putting this
presentation together. It’s not necessarily the most scintillating
presentation that we all love to give but it’s absolutely critical to your
success. Robocruiter used to say the biggest problem we have in
recruiting other than planning and organization... Notice he said other than
planning and organization – that’s the biggest problem we have;
working can’t help your job orders and search assignments; was the rest
of his quote, but planning and organization is key. There’s a quote I’ve
always liked and I have it near my desk: Planning without action is
futile but action without planning is fatale. I don’t want to see a lot of
action if there’s not plan to the action, that’s just movement, and you can’t
mistake activity for production. Gosh, I remember one time I was traveling
a lot more than I do nowadays, I was in an office doing desk level training
and all of that stuff and I actually watched a woman recruiter there make
200 calls in a day – connect calls. I didn’t know that was humanly possible
until I watched her do it! Now they were terrible calls but at least it was
humanly possible to do it – that’s just activity without a plan. Like it says in
the quote action without planning is fatale.
Now if you take out your handouts you’re going to see one that says
TBMG Planning Worksheet for <blank> 2007. Then you’re going to see
another one that says the same thing, only it’ll say “for David 2006,” if you
could pull both of those out, I going to go over those right now kind of
briefly because you’ll have them to keep. By using his numbers – and this
is a real life example of a real million dollar biller that the year before did
$200,000 – it can make an impact on you. He loves this stuff and when I
started with him I built this for him (and the other sheet that I’m going to
talk about in a minute). Alright, if you look at this sheet briefly I knew David
wanted to do a million so under “d” you see $1,000,000. Now, I usually
start with “a” and so with him I had to back off because he wanted to gross
bill a million. But let’s say he did tell me for explanation here, he wanted to
do $441,000 on his W2. He worked for a company now he has his own
company, but at this point he worked for a company he was a seasoned
recruiter, I think he had seven years of experience, and he was at a 50%
pay out rate. What you do is you take the $441,000 divide that by his
recruiter’s percentage, which would be 50%, and you get 882,000 – that’s
his net cash in. He’d needed to do $882,000.
Now in our business we have a couple of things we have to deal with as
well. One is called “Falloff” and one is called “Bad debts.” Falloff is where
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you make a placement and for whatever reason it doesn’t work; a long
start date or the person changes his mind and there are different reasons
for it a lot of it you have no control over. As long as you hold the falloff
back to less than 10%, you’re going to be okay. I mean its best if it’s zero
percent but that’s probably not in the cards always, so because of the 10%
factor I took “b” the $882,000 divided it by .90 figuring the 10% for falloff
factor, and came up with $980,000 – so that had to be his net billing. Then
I took the bad debt and we feel this is just companies you place with – I’m
a big fan of calling little companies and mid-size companies – but
sometimes when you do that you get people who just can’t pay you, as
long as you can hold that to 2% or less you’re okay there as well. So, I
took the $980,000 divided that by .98 for the bad debt fact of 2% and
came up with $1,000,000. That’s were his gross billing is. His average fee
when we did this plan was around $25,000 now I think it is higher than that
but just for this sheet when we first started it we divided his million by
$25,000 of his average fee and it shows he needed to make 40
placements in a year at $25,000 in order to do that million dollars gross
When you go down to column “f” and you go across and you see the
green highlighted block, the green highlighted blocks on the bottom are
the ones I really concern myself with, the other blocks are either too big or
too small, and so that’s why I highlighted the ones I think are important.
For instance, if you took 40 placements in a year – that’s that first block
under “f” (across from “f”). In a quarter he’d need to make 10 placements,
divide by 4; 12 months – you divide the 40 by 12 you get 3.3; weekly
divide by 52 and daily, that’s workdays, you divide by 260. Well I don’t
look at placements per day or placements per week. Most of us consider
placements per month David needed 3.3 placements a month at $25,000
in order to get his 40 to do his million, so that’s how it all ties together.
Then if you go down to “g” what you do there is you take “f” and multiple it
by your send outs to placements ratio, I guessed David’s at 5 to 1. It can
be anywhere, each of you will have your own private ratio, and so you just
put your ratio in there. I think Robocruiter was 8 to 1, I’ve known one
person I think was 1.02 to 1. I mean they’re all over the place but whatever
your’s is you put it in there and multiple it out. With David’s at 5 to 1, you
multiple that ratio times 40 and you get 200. So he needed to do 200 send
outs a year, well I don’t look at send outs a year or a quarter or a month. I
usually look at send outs a week and some of us look at send outs a day. I
looked at that and highlighted in green under weeks, he needed to do 3.8
send outs a week. Job orders the same thing you pull it across, 3.1 and
without belaboring it because I have other things to talk about you get the
idea of what we’re doing here. Marketing/presentations, you take “g” and
multiple times 10 because it usually takes 10 good presentations to get
the send out, again these are averages. So he needed to make about 7.7
marketing presentations a day, 15.4 recruit presentations a day. And I like
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to do this as well because it shows it is really doable. If I can do it, and I’m
not the most prolific on the phone of all time, he could do. Well if you add
that together, and we’re going to use multitasking, that’s 23 presentations
a day – I teach 25, so it’s right in the ballpark of where we wanted to go.
As long as his ratios are going to hold together this is going to work for
As Gary said I gave you a blank one so you can do this on yourself or
anybody in your office, and what we’re trying to do is break this down into
manageable numbers. Is that okay Gary?
Yes, as longs as people now again where you can get the handouts and
all the forms Bob is talking about if you don’t have them, that’s
Bob M.
Ok. Now if you go there as well or if you’ve printed them out already,
you’re going to see the on that’s entitled The Marshall Plan Quarterly
Modularize Goal Sheet and the same title at the top for another one only
it’s going to be for David, you’ll see his name at the bottom. What I then
did with him is I took what we wanted to do annually and broke it into
quarterly. One of the things I’ve noticed for years now is that a lot of times
we trainers teach daily goals sometimes we teach yearly goals, you find
very few trainers out there that train quarterly goals. I always think back of
the days when I was in school whether it was high school or college or
whatever, and doing Christmas break usually, the bad teachers would
always give you like a book to read and you’d have to come back and give
a report on it at the end of the break, and let’s say the break was 14 days
long. The really smart students would take the book and divide it into
14ths and would read 1/14th of the book each day and then finished it at
the end of their two weeks and then had the report and they were ready to
go. The rest of us waited until the day before we were going back to
school and tried the read the whole book or get cliff notes or something.
Well, I didn’t like that and you knew why the top students ere top students
because they planned and organized correctly, the same reason top
producers in recruiting are top producers because they plan and organize
By the way I should say this for those of you having difficulty as I’m going
thru this thinking ‘Oh I just don’t like this stuff’ or ‘it’s too number oriented.’
None of the top recruiters loved to plan. I think I can make a blanket
statement like that, but they are all great planners. Just think about that:
none of them loved to plan, they would fight me on it, and I think David still
does, but if you want to be a big producer they’ve learned that they have
to do it. They’ve got to plan. A lot of them will block out an hour or two the
night before to plan for their next day because they know it’s that critical to
their success. So, it’s ok if you hate it. You know, if you loved planning you
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probably would have been an actuary or an accountant, but in our
business even though we love being on the phone doing deals and being
silver tongue devils and being good listeners and all that stuff, we still
have to plan.
So, if you look at these two sheets The Marshall Plan Quarterly
Modularized Goal Sheets, what I took is David’s million and divided it into
four because it was a quarter, and you’ll see at the top $250,000 for
January, February, and March 2006. Then what you do since its 13
weeks in a quarter not 12, you take the 250 divide it by 13 and (for the first
line) get $19,231; the next line $38,462. Anyway you get the idea you just
keep adding it up and then at the end of each week you go to where you
are in production, you put a little dot it and then you connect the dots. So
you go from 0 and say you build to $20,000 that would be at the top, a
little above that first block, and you’d make a connecting dot. That’s how
you do this David loved this he said it really kept him on track to do the
production that was necessary. Also you take the placements, he needed
to do 40; 10 would be in a quarter; you divide by 13 – 1/13th is .77; 2/13th
is 1.54 – you get the idea. You do the same thing and connect the dots
there. So, he stays on line as much as possible, we want him to stay as
close to that green line as possible because if he’s above it that’s great, if
he’s below it he needs to get above it or at least stay on that line. That will
keep him on track quarterly to do what he wants to do yearly, and he won’t
have to be the recruiter who calls me the week before the quarter is up
and ask “How do I bill $100,000 next week?” because it’s not going to
happen as a rule.
Qualifier Job Order
The next thing and I’ll just go over this briefly. I did it once with Gary when
we had another topic back in August of last year when we talked about
eliminating frustration and that’s called a qualifier job order. Now you’ll
have this available to you after the presentation because I sent it to Gary,
in fact I just redid these forms. So you’re going to get the Position
Description front and back. I won’t spend a lot of time on it right now but
it’s basically divided into six sections. The idea is we want to qualify all of
our job orders before we work them because we’re trying to find that 4%
that’s going to pay us. Robocruiter told me a long time ago and this has
been substantiated by all the other recruiters I’ve talked to that bill at big
levels and that is this: most of the job orders we write as recruiters we’re
not going to fill. Two-thirds of the job orders we write are “can’t help” job
orders that we shouldn’t even be working on. That’s a big dynamic to
understand and it’s really a lot of times thru no fault of your own. It’s weird
that it happens this way but Robocruiter used to say ‘out of 15 job orders
that I write (keep in mind this is a great recruiter) 0 to 1 is of search
assignment quality, about 4 to 5 is matching type quality, and about 10 or
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two thirds are what we call “can’t help.” Now you can fill a “can’t help” job
order. I used the example I think back in August of RCA in Lancaster, PA.
Years ago I placed their VP of Marketing in Latin America, a man by the
name of Luis Vera. It took me – this is a true story too – a year from the
time I presented Luis until the time he was placed. That’s a true story! I
used to brag and say you know I’m one of the few recruiters that RCA will
use, well no kidding I’m one of the stupidest recruiters in America that
would go a year from the time of the presentation until the person is hired.
That would be a textbook definition of a “can’t help” job order. I should
have never worked the job order. Another man that I worked with up in
Washington, DC his name is Pierre. He was talking about the same thing
that he’s so tenacious and so good and knows his niche, he’ll spend three
months finding the right person for his company, but while he’s doing all
that work and making one placement a quarter the people he competes
with in recruiting, are making three or four a month. Therein lays the
problem. So, the position description you’re going to see is divided into six
• Contact Information: name, address, phone number
• Duties and responsibilities
• Salary range/fee
• Hiring: the last day they can go with the position open. We’re
trying to determine urgency here.
• Recruiting: who do you want; what companies do you respect
• Hiring manager biography
By the way just an aside here, I was working the other day with a
company up in Philadelphia and I said that to them. I said ‘Let me ask you
this question’ because it looked like a pretty interesting position, it was a
manager of lighting type of position I said ‘who do you want for this
position?’ There was a big silence at the other end and I know most
recruiters don’t ask this question, and the guy finally came back to me and
said ‘you know, that’s a good question can we all get together and get
back to you on that.’ Sure enough, and I wasn’t ready for the call, but it
was like two or three days later all of a sudden I get this conference call
from Joe, the hiring authority, who said ‘listen I have five people in the
room here, we’re going to give you some names that we’d like for this
position.’ They’d do that! They will absolutely give you the names and they
ticked off five or six names that I’m working on right now to recruit for the
position because I know if I hit on any of those names I’ll have a
So, that’s six blocks. The idea here is to fill out the information in kind of a
skeleton format. Remember you’ve planned and organized – and I’ll get
into modularization in a minute, but you already have your plan for today
you don’t have a whole lot of time to spend righting job orders. I know a lot
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of us don’t think that way but if you’re planned and organized you’ve got to
get on to your next phone call, but you want to write the job order. So
you’re writing the job order and then you look at your watch and you say
‘Gosh, I’m busy and I know you’re busy too I got you out of the blue but
I’m going to need you for probably another 20 or 30 minutes to get all of
the information I need, when is a good time to call you back?’ And by the
way I don’t know my audience here that I’m talking to but if you work
clerical you can’t do this; if you work temp you can’t do this. If those two
things are not operative you can do this. They just age too quickly and
that’s why you can’t call back, but the other ones you can. So, you say
‘Friday at 4,’ you look at your planner go to Friday at 4, write it in and say
‘great I’ll call you at 4:00 pm, I’ll only keep you for 20 minutes this will be
great.’ Then when you go to call him back on Friday and they answer the
phone call, that’s your first green flag – this is a good job order. On the
other hand if you can’t get him because they’re in a meeting or they’re just
too busy to talk to you, or ‘Bob just send candidates and we’ll take it from
there,’ that’s your first red flag – this is a “can’t help” job order. The beauty
of doing a qualifier sequence like that is you haven’t spend straight
commission time working a job order you’re never going to fill or it’s going
to take you three months to fill.
That’s what the top recruiters have learned – they know how to qualify,
and especially in this day and age because gosh for the last two years
we’ve gotten a ton of job orders. More than we did in the four years before
I can assure you. The problem is because we’re so used to working
crummy job orders, now that we’re getting so many of them, we can’t tell
the difference. And your desk is a manufacturing plant that I did for Gary
last year that’s one of the things we talk about with the Quality Control
manager you’ve got to get that quality back up meaning you’ve got to
qualify these job orders before you spend your straight commission time
working job orders you’re not going to place on. So, that’s the idea with
qualifying the job order and using the Position Description form to do it,
and calling back. Robocruiter it’s funny but just an aside here when he
would qualify a job order the first time I heard him do this I was stunned! I
just couldn’t believe any human being recruiter did this. I’m sitting at his
desk I’m taking notes what we call desk level, and he’s on the phone and
he says ‘I think I can help you with your assignment but let me explain to
you how I work.’ I’d never heard that before. I’d been a Pacesetter I’d
been a good recruiter the year before two years before and never at his
level, still I knew how to write a job order but we were never trained to do
that. He was saying ‘let me tell you how I work’ and apparently the person
on the other end, the potential client, said ‘Well we work with recruiters all
the time’ because Robocruiter then said “Well that’s fine but you’ve never
worked with me before, I may be a little bit different than what you’re used
to. First of all my fee is 30% of realistic first year earnings it’s not
negotiable, my time is as valuable as the next guy, and this will be the last
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time we talk about that. Number two I have a 30 day replacement only
guarantee, I can’t guarantee the person over 30 days otherwise I’d have to
be a part of your company. We don’t do refunds I’ll need your okay on that
today as well because this will be the last time we talk about that. Number
three, I’m going to find you people who are happy, well appreciated,
making good money, currently working and I’m going to entice them to
move for a better opportunity. These are not job hoppers, job shoppers or
rejects. What does that mean to you? It means my guys usually will not
have resumes. Don’t ask me for a resume that’ll only slow down the
process, and this will be the last time we talk about that. Number four, all
offers need to come through me because I can ensure the person will
accept if it’s done that way...’ Anyway, he went on for like 10 steps and if
you’d like these 10 steps, email me or email Gary and I’ll get you a copy. I
know nobody will do it but everybody seems to want this list.
Anyway, he got off the phone and I was stunned! I’d never heard anything
remotely like this I didn’t know we were suppose to qualify job orders to be
honest with you. Until I’d heard him do it and that way was unbelievable.
Anyway, he said what’s wrong and I said you do that every time you write
a job order? And he said absolutely. I’m shaking my head thinking nobody
is going to believe me. There is no way I could teach this and people
would think I’m not fibbing. And I asked if it worked and he said yes it
works all the time. Then he looked at me and said when you said works
what do you mean by works? I couldn’t imagine anybody agreeing to all
those things, so I asked do people agree to that and he said no, no Bob
but you’re missing the point. I don’t do what you just heard me do to edit
in job orders, I do it to edit out job orders. I know I have to make a certain
number of calls a day and have a certain size marketplace, and I know
two thirds of the job orders I will write today are going to be “can’t help” job
orders. I did what you just heard me do to find out if it fits in that category,
and when I find that it does it’s a “can’t help” job order, I wish them the
best of luck but I can’t take it for whatever the reasons are, and then I
hang up and I look up to the sky and thank my lucky stars that I found out
today that this is a “can’t help” job order and not three months from today
when I’m trying to place on this thing to the exclusion of all the other work I
could’ve done that would’ve been great.
One of my students called me the other day he has about as much
experience as I have and he was so upset and said how he went to this
hiring authority and he used this trainer’s script and it didn’t work. And
then he used this trainer’s script and it didn’t work either, and I just don’t
understand, and he’s going on and on and I was kind of laughing and he
said what do you think is so funny, and I said ‘John (that’s not his name) it
wouldn’t matter if you had a script from God. That company didn’t need
you – that’s all. That was one of the 96% of the companies in America that
don’t need you. So you just be nice, hang up and get on to your next
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phone call because I guarantee you that 4% is out there. The 4% when
you find them are the easiest guys to work with. They like you they see all
of your people they ask for your advice, when you make a placement they
thank you for getting the candidate and placing them, they don’t treat you
like clerks. I mean, all that stuff doesn’t take place when you find the good
companies to work with, and not force yourself on companies that just
don’t need you is the bottom line. Anyway, one of the other keys and you
can get that stuff after the presentation like Gary said, one of the other
keys in this business is qualifying the job order and making sure that
you’re working the job order that are the quality ones and keeping in mind
the ratio that I just said.
Modularizing and Monitoring
Don’t mistake activity for production which brings me to one of the last
things I want to talk about today and that’s modularizing and monitoring.
Gary and I talked about this when we very first discussed this presentation
and one of it ties in with The 100 Point Sheet that you’re going to have a
copy of in front of you, but before I get into that just to touch on
modularization a bit. I use a planner and a lot of my big billers use
planners. Again, they don’t love it – they don’t love planning, they don’t
love using planners, I understand all that part of it but they will do it. We
know from the industrial engineering field that human beings tend to
handle projects best if they’re broken into small segments, as oppose to
looking at the big project and throwing up our hands saying this is
impossible to do. And so what I want to do is break it down. Industrial
engineers I’ve talked to said that human beings can breakdown tasks as
low as 15 minutes at a time. That to me sounds too small and I don’t want
to be jumping around that much. So what I’ve done is I’ve broken the day
down into eight modules – hour modules. Then I do activity in each of
those modules based on how I planned to do that activity the day before.
Based on Robocruiter's admonition to me years ago that when he comes
in the office – and I should do the same thing – the first thing I should do is
the first thing that leads to money. The second thing I should do should be
the second thing that leads to money; and the third thing I should do is the
first thing that I need to do, and they’re all different. So, when I come in
and sit down I’m thinking okay is this call going to lead to money or is it
important to make but it’s just not a money call? When I first come in that
first block from 8:00 to 9:00, that’s the block that I’m going to maybe do
closing calls that I couldn’t get through the day before; debriefs, maybe
preps for interviews because that’s going to lead to money; maybe I found
a candidate that’s a good match for a company – that may lead to money.
So I’m going to do these money calls in the first module. Then 9:00 to
10:00 I’m going to start my marketing and fill in how ever many calls I’m
going to make there; 10:00 to 11:00 the same thing, then 11:00 to 11:30
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the fourth module, and then from 11:30 to 12:00 maybe morning
paperwork, kind of catch up on the paperwork. It’s kind of clock-watchish
but it’s amazing how much you can accomplish when you attack your day
in a day-by-modules as oppose to just trying to attack the day and blowing
with the wind. Then you go to lunch, you leave for a half hour walk around
the building if you don’t eat but just get out of the office I think that’s
important. Then from 1:00 to 2:00 maybe the easier calls because you’re
not as efficient between 1:00 and 2:00, physiologically speaking if you’ve
eaten the blood is in your stomach digesting your food not in your brain,
so it’s easy to do like reference check calls are good to do then or the
easier calls. Then 2:00 to 3:00 maybe recruiting calls or more marketing it
depends on what’s on my desk; then 3:00 to 3:30; and 3:30 to 4:00 my
afternoon paperwork; and then 4:00 to 5:00 planning for the next day.
That’s kind of how a modularized day works and the people that use it tell
me it works really well and they tend to accomplish more in a day.
Anybody that plans by the way and they will tell you they hate it, but they’ll
tell you the day before when they plan the next day when they came in
they accomplish more in that day than they normally do – because it was
planned for. All they have to do is pick up the phone and dial and their
subconscious, which is nine tenths of their brain, is just flowing along with
that plan; built on all of the other things that I talk about.
And then the other thing is monitor. I think it’s important to monitor your
success and to give you rewards on a daily basis because you’re all sales
oriented people. In recruiting you don’t get pats on the back. In fact, the
worse thing we hear is how did you do today? Did you make any
placements today? We know the brutal facts and you’re not going to make
a placement everyday anyway so if that’s asked of the recruiter that’s a
de-motivator and not a motivator. There is a way that we can motivate you
and if you take out the other handout that you have it’s called The
Marshall Plan Weekly 100 Point Sheet and then The Key to the Weekly
100 Point Sheet. This monitoring device was developed years ago by a
man in Arlington, Virginia, had an office in Las Vegas. He was an office
owner in recruiting and also was a mathematician. He figured there should
be an objective way to look at a very subjective business which is this
recruiting thing that we all do. And so what he did he assigned point
values to activities based on the centralness of those activities to making
placements. If you look on the sheet where there are numbers you’ll see
Marketing Attempt – picking up the phone with the intent to make a
marketing call you get one point for that. By the way this is a sheet that
you take at the end of the day, this is not a check and track sheet, you
don’t keep it by your desk during the day it’s not that kind of a monitoring
tool, otherwise it would slow you down. You just file it away and at 4:00
when you close up your day and you stop making calls and you’re ready
to plan for the next day, that’s when you pull The 100 Point Sheet out and
you start putting in the numbers and multiple them by the multiplier factor.
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For instance, on the third block down it says Marketing Send out First. If I
did a marketing call and they said ‘Yeah Bob I want to see that guy he
sounds really great’ and we set up a telephone interview or face-to-face,
that’s a Marketing Send out First. So if I did one of those, at the end of the
day I would do 1 times 15 and get 15 points in that square. Then I’d keep
going down matching either way is three points, I won’t hit them all
because you have the definitions on the other sheet. What you’re after,
and of course if you look at the bottom (or close to the bottom) you’ll see a
place where you can get 100 points, what this person said is if you get 100
points a day you’ve got to make placements. If you don’t get 100 points a
day you’re fooling yourself. You’re not going to make placements in this
business. I caution you if you haven’t used this before when you first do it
you’ll be amazed at how low your points are, because you’re not used to
the activity necessary to build a bunch of placements. It would be like, let’s
say you want to learn ice skating and I’m your teacher and I take you out
the first day on this ice skating rink and teach you some moves and stuff.
Well that day when you’re finished you’ll be sore because you’re using
muscles you haven’t used before. And the next day you’ll be sore but
maybe not as sore as the first day, and the third day you’ll be a little better
but still feel sore. It’ll take you weeks before these muscles are built up so
that you’re not sore like you were when I first started teaching you how to
ice skate. Well the same thing when you do the 100 Point Sheet – don’t be
worried that your numbers are low initially because you’re just not used to
those muscles yet but as you focus and you really try to do the activity and
not activity for activity sake, but activity that’s central to making a
placement, then you’ll be scoring high numbers.
One of the funniest stories about this 100 Point Sheet, when I was doing a
lot of travel overseas one of the main places I went was London. We had
a big office over there with the group that I was traveling with. And when I
introduced this, I sat down with the manager over there, I said listen I want
to introduce this it really works well and I go through the same explanation
I’m doing with you guys, and he said ‘You know what let’s call it the 200
Point Sheet instead of the 100 Point Sheet and see how my recruiters do
because I always try to test them as much as possible.’ So I told him sure
you’re the boss I’m sure its going to come to a diminishing return at some
point but 200 points is probably doable. So we did 200 points and sure
enough that office got up to the level of 200 points a day, and of the whole
organization and we offices all over the United States and Malta and
Cyprus and all over the UK and that office in London became our biggest
billing office, and our superstar recruiter came out of that exact same
office. Now I don’t know if it’s because we called it the 200 Point Sheet
instead of the 100 Point Sheet (the way it was invented was 100 points).
I’ve added things to it over the years because I’ve been pressured to do
that. Like for instance Hiring Manager Prep and Candidate Prep you’ll see
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that towards the bottom you get 5 points each, that wasn’t in the original
sheet. Hiring Manager Debriefing, Candidate Debrief; and it’s the first time
you do it. You can’t debrief a candidate five times in a day and count the
same candidate and call it five debriefs and get 25 points. It only counts
the first time in a day. So I changed it a little, and then at the bottom you’ll
see the non-multiplier blocks: Work days since your last placement: if it’s
been five work days that’s only a week I’m not worried. If it’s 10 well I’m
now concerned if I’m your manager but not, still I’m not that really worried.
Once we get up to 20 days, 25 days now we’re into a month and no
placement, then we get a little more concerned about it and want to know
what’s going on. There are extenuating circumstances I understand that
but at least it keeps me aware. Hot Sheet – those are the things I track
that they’re either telephone interviews or face-to-face; and Action Calls
and Hours Worked. Action Calls are marketing presentations, recruit
presentations or search presentations and matching both ways. As long
as you do 25 like we talked about earlier you’re going to make
So the way I look at this sheet because I don’t want to use it as a weapon,
and a lot of times monitoring sheets like this can be used as weapons
against recruiters and I never liked that about it, but as long as you use it
to help you and maybe you just take your own numbers. You know we
used to take our own numbers at noon and then take them at the end of
the day and at noon we take them and if we had 50 points we figured we
had a pretty good day. If at noon we had 20 points we knew we really had
to cook in the afternoon and if we had 80 points in the morning, well then
maybe we could finish up some job orders or do some other stuff in the
afternoon. It just kind of told us where we were but as long as it’s not used
as a weapon I think it could be very powerful, and it does focus on activity
central to making a placement.
Just a really short story about this: in 1982 when I was working a desk I’d
been doing this for two years, taking my points and I was kind of the acting
manager and I was taking everybody else’s points. Well we basically fired
everybody in my office, I was in Reno, Nevada I was the only recruiter left.
So I stopped taking my points because I thought I am the only one here
why am I taking my points, and that was those of you that remember back
that far that was the year of the oil and gas problems, the big recession
and all that. Anyway after about three weeks I noticed that I only had like
one or two things on my hot sheet. Well I’ve always had more than that,
I’ve always had like four or five things on my hot sheet now I’m down to
one or two and I thought it might be interesting to take my points just to
see where I’m at. I took my points, the first day I had like 35 points and I
was stunned because I was always well over 100 points. What had
happened is I got in bad habits of making three calls to the same person
when I couldn’t get thru, calling the Chamber of Commerce to get packets
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of information sent to a candidate who is never going to relocate. I mean
all of this stuff that’s not central to making a placement it’s all ancillary stuff
that I’d gotten in the habit of doing. It dawned on me I’m not getting points
for this stuff because it’s not central to making placements. So the next
day I really focused and I got 70 points; the next day I had like 90 points. I
mean it took me awhile to get back up to 100 points, but sure enough after
I got 100 points I noticed things coming back on the hot sheet and then we
started hiring people at that point and the rest is history. It really taught me
a lesson that we can get off on tangents if we really don’t monitor what we
expect of ourselves. So that was the last thing I may not have explained
everything but you have the explanations, and again if you want to ask me
any questions about that you can go thru Gary or send me an email or
That’s basically some of the things I wanted to talk about today before we
open it up for questions. All the information, like with all my stuff and it’s
probably why Gary and I get along so well, it comes from observing and
conversing with top recruiters. I promise you I’m not giving you Bob
Marshall’s favorite ideas or that God talks to me and then I talk to you. I
am merely, having 27 years experience and being a pretty good listener
even though I’m talking a lot now, when I’m in an office with a top recruiter
I just take notes until they tell me to leave and I found interesting
similarities between the top recruiters and they didn’t talk to one another.
So everything that I’ve talked to you about today are working for high
levels of production for somebody. Now, it doesn’t mean that it’ll all work
for you because not everybody does everything. I think the key and I
always say this after I do these talks and I know I talk fast and we’ve
talked about some pretty big topics today even though we kind of touched
on them pretty quickly, the key is to find a technique that I talked about
today with you that you like or that you think can work for you and then do
it for 21 days. It doesn’t make sense to say ‘Yeah I’m going to modularize
my day and plan for a week’, not enough time. You’ve got to give yourself
basically a month. In fact the people out in California Caltrans I think first
came up with it, that before they would give a ticket when they put in a
stop sign they gave you a month because people would run that stop sign
for about a month. Every time they would pull up a stop sign people would
stop there for about a month. It takes about a month for us to develop a
new habit.
Anything you want to do based on what we talked about today that’s good
and I promise you it all works for somebody that’s billing huge numbers of
dollars, but you’ve got to let it become a habit and that’s only going to
happen after about a month; then if you don’t like it after a month that’s
fine. Our big biller that I talked you about over in London that did so well
his name is Andrew Jenkins, I don’t think he’d mind me saying his name.
He’s a huge biller to this day. He came in to that office with a really big
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background in sales but nothing in recruiting and he went to our manager
there and said ‘You teach me how to be a recruiter and I’ll do anything you
say for a year. After that year I reserve the right to change but for the first
year I don’t care what you say, if I think it’s stupid it doesn’t matter I’ll do
anything.’ And sure enough he became our biggest biller. Based on
Andrew’s experience when David called me, that was one of the first
things I said to him and I usually don’t say to people and that was if you
promise me that you’ll do everything I tell you to with no debate then I’ll
take you on. Only that way because I knew we had to do a bunch of stuff
and I didn’t want to debate it and David was good enough to say you tell
me what to do and I’ll do it. I know Gary would appreciate that any of us in
training when we get students like that we get tears in our eyes because
we know we can teach that person. We have an old expression in
teaching that when the student is ready the teacher will come. David was
ready. Andrew was ready. I don’t know in the audience today how many of
you are ready but when you’re ready, the teacher will come to you I
promise. That’s when you’ll do the production that you’re after.
I think that’s basically it for me Gary if you want to take it back and we’ll do
Q & A.
Thank you very much Bob that was awesome. So that’s it for today for the
lecture portion if you guys have questions Bob has agreed to stay on for a
bit more to take your questions and we’ll get to that in a second. I want to
remind you if you want more information about Bob you would go to to learn more about him. Monique can you give
Sure. At this time we if you have a question or comment you may do so
(gives instructions). Give me one moment. Ok our first question comes
from David S. Go ahead David your line is open.
Participant: I’m in Scottsdale, Arizona and would love to meet David. Both of you are
terrific, Mr. Marshall you’re great. I have eight recruiters and we focus only
on the career college business: Apollo, University of Phoenix, schools like
that. Our website is I have eight
recruiters some of whom do $400,000 unfortunately three or four of them
only do $200,000. I need to get either all of them up to a million or else
terminate them. (Laugher) I need some help and I would be very
interested Gary talking with you as well as Bob about individual training.
Everything you’ve said hit home, I have a question Bob. You mentioned
that 4%, you know 125 a week – those are connect calls – and I assume
that a left message or last updated resume, that’s not a connect call as far
as I’m concerned. Also I should mention we’re in two businesses; we sell
colleges. We’re the largest brokers in the country selling these career
colleges. So when I get a financing buyer to buy a college he says to me
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‘I’ll buy this college only if you staff it,’ that’s when got me into the
recruiting business 10 years ago. So it’s a combo if you look at my website
you’ll see
I don’t want to rush you but do you have a question?
Participant: Yeah the question is the 25 connect calls per day, 125 a week, 1,500 a
quarter; 4% of that is 60 times $20k is $1.2 million – but that’s a quarter. I
thought you meant $1.2 million for the year? I can’t reconcile the 25 a day
125 a week 1,500 a quarter, with a million a year.
Bob M:
Yeah, I probably didn’t explain it correctly David. What I meant was the
4% rule holds so you’re doing 25 connect calls a day which is 125 a week
500 a month 1,500 a quarter, and you’re rotating those guys four times a
year. That’s the part I left out.
Participant: Oh, okay. Rotating, so that eventually leads to, if you’re good enough, to
getting a million dollars. That’s my question thank you very much.
Monique, who is next?
Our next question comes from Lori S. Go ahead Lori your line is open.
Participant: Thank you. I have just a quick question on your marketing presentations
like 2,000 a year. What exactly do you constitute as a marketing
Bob M:
Well and it would be, you know that 1,500 a quarter rotating them through
however that happens for you. It really depends. I was raised, gosh in fact
I hate to say I started with Management Recruiters because everybody
thinks I’ve been with them forever and I only started with them, but they
taught something called an MPC – Most Placeable Candidate, and using
that candidate as a door opener which I think is valid, I think it does work.
As I’ve traveled around, I left them back in 1986 and I’ve traveled and hit
so many companies that are not MR that do presentations all differently,
it’s really how you envision a presentation; how you introduce yourself to a
company, whether it’s through a candidate, it’s through what you’ve done
in the past, it’s through a recommendation, you’ve heard they have an
opening you wanted to know if the opening was opened for search.
However that is, that’s what I would consider a marketing presentation.
Participant: So it could just be a phone call to them trying to get connected.
Bob M:
Yeah. Ideally people ask me that a lot and I’ll say you know I would love to
teach you to do a Most Placeable Candidate presentation because I like it
and I think it works, but that aside if you just don’t like it, let’s say or you
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don’t do it or whatever, then at least make a presentation however you
make. Top recruiters as a group would say to you that if you want to teach
one thing Bob tell them to pick up an instrument and talk in to it. If they just
do that they’ll make placements. So, rather than not making the call I
would the call however you envision that call to be made and something
good will happen. Does that help Lori?
Participant: Yes absolutely, thank you.
Our next question comes from Todd, go ahead Todd your line is open.
Participant: Thank you. Bob that was a great presentation it came at the perfect time
for me let me tell you. My question for you is when you’re planning your
day the night before how do you organize your calls? And what I mean by
that is I’ve got a database that I, you know generally speaking I say I’m
going to call from 9:00 to 10:00 and I shotgun approach and I just go
through and say Oh I haven’t called that person in awhile, or I haven’t
heard from them in awhile. How do you have your people actually
organize their calls the night before?
Bob M:
Well it’s mainly just like you said off a call list and by the way you can
thank Gary for the topic because he’s the one that suggested the topic to
me but it’s just, other than making the money calls at the beginning of the
day which I think is valid according to Robocruiter and making the
reference check calls after lunch and you’re going to multitask on those, it
really doesn’t matter as long as you break the day down into blocks and
you attack the day that way in my opinion based on the modularization. So
you’ll have a call list like you said and it will maybe have 100 companies
and you’ll just start putting in the blocks of which calls you’re going to
make when because I don’t think it really matters other than the money
calls and then you just start calling. Multitasking by the way (I think Gary
and I touched on one of these formats before) that’s five things that you do
on every phone call; you can direct market, indirect market, direct recruit,
indirect recruit, and information gather. And so we’re trying to do five
things on every phone call based on which way the phone call will allow
itself to go. As long as we’re doing multitasking and the modularizing and
stuff I don’t think it’s critical other than the money calls. Does that make
Participant: Yep absolutely and one quick follow up question. Do you have an actually
modular outline that you offer to your clients?
Bob M:
Yeah. Well I do a modularized planner. If you go on the website like Gary
said it shows all the stuff and I’m a big fan although I’ve been in the
business a long time. You know 27 years obviously I’m used to a paper
planner and a lot of people nowadays are not they want to do it on their
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computer, and I’m ok with that just however you do but regardless I think
the day needs to be blocked and I’m a big fan of writing it down. Studies
show in one of my daughter’s, who is a schoolteacher and she says the
same thing for her students, that if you write something that it tends to be
the fastest way into your subconscious which is nine tenths of your brain,
if you type it, it doesn’t. I don’t know why that is you’d have to ask
scientists but I like the writing and it’s redundant people don’t like it but
getting back to what I said in the presentation, most of the recruiters out
there don’t like to do this activity because it’s kind of mind numbing, it’s
redundant a lot of times. I mean I’ll get people to say ‘Bob, I already wrote
it here you want me to write it here too?’ I know you get all of the
complaints but the big billers do and you just try to share the ideas of the
big billers.
Participant: Great, thank you.
Our next question comes from Emily G. Go ahead Emily your line is open.
Participant: Hi. First of all I just want to say I really liked this 100 Point Sheet. I’m a
very numbers oriented person and so it’s very helpful for my group. What
I’m wondering is I know you mentioned that it shouldn’t be chicken scratch
throughout the day you shouldn’t be kind of ticking off all these calls as
you make them or these referrals or send outs as you make them. How
would you best remember how many you did everyday? I mean, if we sit
down at noon and sit down at 4:00 and we kind of say ok how many did
we do, how do you best approach that without making it kind of obsessed
with doing the chicken scratch like you were saying?
Bob M:
Well you would have a planner and you check them off as you make the
calls on your planner or you could use yellow sheets of paper I guess, but
at the end of the day then you would add up the checks that you made
during the day.
Participant: Ok. So the whole point would be that you had this all made up from the
day before.
Bob M:
Yeah, well I think you would have to have a planner in order for the 100
Point Sheet to work. You know? Or something that you put the number or
you put the checks down on otherwise you couldn’t add them up because
it’s just like you said they’d be all over the place and how would you
remember. I guess you could use it as a chicken track sheet, I’ve never
seen anybody do it that way but I think it would slow down the day.
Participant: I agree.
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Bob M.
Yeah. I think most of the time... and interestingly something else I didn’t
say, it tends to be best, The 100 Point Sheet, when the manager you as
the manager come around and you take the people’s 100 points. They
report it to you, you take it down. Not that you’re they’re mom or dad or
anything like that but the idea is if I know that at the end of the day Emily
is going to be sitting at my desk at 4:00 I’m going to do better probably
because if I have to report crummy numbers you’re going to look at me
and maybe you’re a nice person and not criticize me but still I know what
you’re thinking. So if you’re going to see me every afternoon at 4:00 I will
do better if I don’t have to see you at 4:00 I’m just taking up my own
points, I might slide a little. In fact in the old days when we had owners
and franchisees that were by themselves, we always setup a
mentor/mentee relationship where they would report their numbers at the
end of the day to another living human being for that very reason.
Participant: Thank you very much!
Our next question comes from Carolyn. Go ahead Carolyn your line is
Participant: Yes, hi Bob excellent presentation. Do you utilize any of the Monster job
boards for your candidates or you strictly do recruiting?
Bob M:
I strictly do recruiting because that’s what I was trained and you know that
is my name – to be a recruiter. I think you should use everything though.
I’m not anti-Monster or anything like that. I think sometimes you luck out
and find people. I remember, just a quick story, when Monster came to
town here in Atlanta years ago and they wanted us to join and I got invited
and I’m in the audience and I couldn’t wait to ask my questions because I
knew what I was going to ask. So they finish their presentation and they
said ‘Ok now we’re going to open it up for questions but let me tell you
guys this especially all of you recruiters out there. If you’re going to use
Monster to go through our resume database to see if you can find
candidates, you’re making a big mistake,’ which was going to be my
question. He said it was mainly made up of job hoppers, job shoppers and
rejects but he said what you can do is post your job order on our site and
get the people that are lurking or the passive candidates that are maybe
looking, and that might be the best way to use Monster, and I thought he
was right. So, it doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t use Monster but I would not
make that a major focal point of what I would do. You haven’t seen it yet
and I didn’t spent a whole lot of time covering it but when you ask the
company which people do you want for this position, the better question is
actually which companies or competitors of yours do respect and want
someone from, when you get those questions answered the top recruiters
find that they know exactly where to go to extract the people. And it’s more
of what we call “rifle shot” or “surgical” recruiting, and the big boys do that
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really well. The average billers will put stuff on Monster or Dicer you know
any of the job boards and see if they can find somebody. Again, I don’t
want to say it total black and white I’m pretty open, as long as – I don’t
think it’s good to have 90% of my activities based on Monster. 90% should
be straight recruiting.
Participant: uh-uh. In your module, your eight module break up for the day, when do
you – you didn’t really sort of stick interviewing in there?
Bob M:
That would be one of the modules, whenever you do it. Let’s say you’re
doing interviewing, I don’t because my office is too remote, but if I were in
an office where I was doing interviewing I might, depending on how many I
do, I might do like 10 to 11, or 11 to 12 – that’s my interviewing block.
Participant: Okay great.
Bob M:
And most of the people I interview as a rule I don’t place; but I may place
some of them so I don’t want to spend a whole lot of time with them, but if
you’re in to interviewing yeah you just block out that time.
Participant: Okay great. We do administrative/clerical so it’s a little bit more important
to interview, you have to meet the person.
Also you have my big disclaimer that I said during the presentation on
calling back administrative and clerical people you can’t wait two or three
days to call back or your job order is dead. So you have to tend to change
the way we usually teach qualifier job order in that you might call back the
same day or you might not even be able to call back you may have to
present candidates right when you’re taking the job order. You’re just
more compressed. Temp and clerical/admin offices tend to be way
compressed but I have a bit of good news for you: the biggest biller I ever
heard about until just recently with David and some of the others were a
woman I think by the name of Shelly Harris out of Snelling & Snelling in
Dallas. She did a million dollars in a year and she worked
clerical/administrative, and she made a placement a day.
Participant: Wow! Wow!
Bob M:
So see you have something to shoot for but that’s true that’s the first
person I ever heard that did a million, a female, and she did it local and
she did it in clerical/administrative. I think her average fee was $900 or
something like that.
Participant: Oh my!
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Bob M:
I know it’s amazing. That’s why a lot of times people say well I want to
work the big placements or I want to work the big fees and that’s okay with
me but you don’t have to work big fees to make a lot of money.
Participant: Great thanks so much.
Our next question comes from Tom S. Go ahead Tom, your line is open.
Participant: Good morning. I have a question regarding your weekly 100 Point Sheet.
In our industry we need to do a lot of research to find the candidates and I
might find that I’m spending three times as much time looking for the
candidate as I am reaching out and making the calls. I don’t see any of
that listed here on your point sheet.
Bob M:
You know because the point sheet wasn’t intended for non-phone activity.
So you either have to modify it for your operation or do that after hours.
Participant: Oh, okay.
Bob M:
I know that probably sounds like bad news to you but The 100 Point Sheet
was really focused on phone activity and interviewing and the other stuff
like what Carolyn just said but it’s not focused for research.
Participant: Ok alright well thank you.
Our next question comes from Arney, go ahead Arney your line is open.
Participant: I want to dovetail on the previous question and I’m wondering for someone
relatively new in the industry or somebody who is setting up a desk, where
do you find this universe of companies to begin with, how do you define
that how do you find then the universe of people that you’re going to put
on to the call sheets to get organized the night before to do for the calling
during the day? Sort of a prior question to getting ready to do everything
else that you said to do.
Bob M:
Right and this is the setup in fact I’m working with a guy right now up in
Rhode Island that we’re doing this very thing. We’re deciding what does
he want to do because I always ask new students what do you want to do
because what you want to do or the discipline you’d like to know about
more, that’ll be exciting for you and you’ll come to work everyday. So
we’re deciding on that right now then we’ve got to get like you said, ok
where are the 1,500 companies come from? And 1,500 by the way is not a
magically number but it’s something that, I mean gosh, even if you added
25 new companies a day in a quarter you’d finish your 1,500 list. It doesn’t
have to be a 1,500 company list that you get this week for instance. They
come from all different sources. I use Google to search things all the time
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to find out new companies. They come from associations that are
specialized in whatever your specialty is. David, the million dollar boy in
Louisville he uses Hoovers as one of his, I think it costs but he uses that,
he likes that a lot. Anything you can think of, in the old days we had, well
the hospitable blue book – for any of you that work hospitals, that’s always
been a good source; Dun & Bradstreet, just wherever you can think of. I
guess the think is you don’t have to be worried that I need these 1,500
before I can start working. You just need 25 before you can start working
or maybe 50 if it’s going to take you twice as many to make the contact,
but just as many as you need to get on the phone and start making the
phone calls. But you’re right that’s a pre-start activity that I would get out
of the way before I set down at my desk and started making phone calls.
Participant: Alright, and you do that kind of coaching to help to defined that universe of
Bob M:
I would steer them but I don’t teach specialties. I always find what your
specialty is, like David for instance his specialty is accounting/finance in
the commercial sector and that’s what he does. Well I don’t know
accounting/finance in the commercial sector. That’s where he goes to
Hoovers and I would encourage him to go to those sources and usually
when you find what your specialty is going to be and maybe it’s a specialty
you’re really familiar with, you’ll know the associations and the trade
groups. You want to get known and know them and they’ll have a list of
people you can get from their website or you can be an affiliate member
and get it that way. Infosec for a long time, well maybe three years I
worked information security. My big conference was the RSA conference
that happened every year out in San Jose and sometimes San Francisco,
and everybody at Infosec was at that conference. Once a year I made a
plan to attend that conference and got my name known that way and you
would talk to people and find out what sites they were on and how they
had to be if the were CISAs or all the different abbreviations. So you just it
that and then you’ll find them and you’ll get them. Then you’re constantly
asking people for leads and you’re constantly asking, if a candidate has
been out looking for a job you find out where they looked, it’s going to give
you leads to open job orders. You’re constantly adding and subtracting
and calling.
Hopefully I made the point at the beginning that this business is like a
process not a series of events and then it’s mixing and matching. Once we
get up to that 1,500 and it’s a process where we’re doing everything
everyday, then we just mix and match. The guy that doesn’t fit here fits
here and we amplify our chances of success. Then we have like a
synergistic affect where we make a lot more then the average biller that’s
trying to make one placement at a time, and that’s how we were able to fix
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Participant: Alright great, thanks very much.
Good. Monique, can you tell me how many people are in the queue right
At this time we have no further questions.
Ok. If we didn’t get to you I apologize we do have to wrap up the call but
can contact Bob again at For Mastermind
program members I told you I would answer any questions as well and
you can submit those in the member’s area through the online discussion
board and I will answer those for you if there is anything that we didn’t get
to today. Bob thank you very much this was a great presentation and the
forms are excellent so people can refer to those. We’ll leave them up for
probably a week or so, I really suggest that everybody go and download
those. Thank you Bob very much for the presentation today. Good-bye.
Gary Stauble is the principal consultant for The Recruiting Lab, a coaching
company that assists Firm Owner’s, Solo Operator’s & Recruiter’s in
generating more profit in less time.
Gary offers FREE Special Reports and other Resources to assist you
becoming more effective. Learn more at
The Gold Mastermind is a Powerful, Results-Driven Coaching Program.
Learn more at
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